RS premier Milorad Dodik,interviewed for 85 minutes on the Current Talk programme broadcast by RS public TV (Banja Luka), 12 June 2009, presents an intransigent stance on a range of B-H current issues and calls for the OHR to be closed down

Host of Current Talk programme on RS TV: What is happening to us? The investigations, dismissals, pressures, ultimatums [i.e. the investigation of Dodik for embezzlement of funds, OHR's replacement of state security officers, OHR deadlines for the revocation of RS Assembly resolutions on transfer of powers]. Where is all this taking us?

RS premier Milorad Dodik: [Passage omitted, Dodik says the previous period has been characterized by the global economic recession] On the other hand, this period has been characterized by severe political issues, which are a continuation of everything that happened here in the past, I would say - an undefined and unresolved situation, with persistent attempts to resolve it, combined with the fact that the OHR has reached its end and its structures, which have been trying from one Peace Implementation Council [session] to another to keep their jobs in Sarajevo, for which they are well paid, while they are spending their time in a relatively stable society. Bosnia-Hercegovina does not have security issues, and Bosnia-Hercegovina, including the Serb Republic, has not registered a single ethnically-motivated incident over the past several years. The crime rates in Bosnia-Hercegovina, according to the UN analysis, are lower than in some European Union countries. [Passage omitted, Dodik says people are trying to go back to normal lives, pending employment at times of global economic crisis.] In all this, in three weeks' time, we will have another so-called PIC [Peace Implementation Council session], which is expected to decide once again whether there will be an OHR in the future or not. We had a similar situation before the March PIC, we had relative peace and then two to three weeks before the session, a general turbulence occurred and led to tensions, which are generally created by the people from the OHR, who want to keep their jobs and their powers. The same way as before, this time they are trying once again to attribute guilt to the Serb Republic and create a situation for the new High Representative Mr Inzko, who has just arrived, in which he cannot discern what is in fact going on. Through constant OHR briefings, they presented everything black, but particularly the Serb Republic.

[Passage omitted, the host asks about an informal meeting between Dodik and Inzko before the programme]

[Dodik:] The problem is not the High Representative, it is the Office of the High Representative. According to Paddy Ashdown's [former High Representative] writings, there had been 800 people there, who are now reduced to 200 or 300, who had created and administered Bosnia-Hercegovina and who have been determining the destinies of people, and wish to continue doing so. They will be mere clerks, once the OHR closes down. They are totally unimportant. These are frustrated people who want to make a state without any responsibility, and without any knowledge, for that matter. The OHR had made a huge mistake by creating the spirit of Dayton [accord], instead of insisting on the implementation of Dayton. [Passage omitted, Dodik says they have not had problems with the latest three High Representatives, after Paddy Ashdown, who acted as "bull in a china shop"]. Ashdown wrote in his memoirs that he had had at his disposal 38 million euros per month and 800 people who were supposed to act as a legislation-making machine, impose laws and create the society. And, he had done so for three years, but failed. When he was leaving, he said he was leaving Bosnia-Hercegovina disappointed by the fact that Bosnia-Hercegovina is a deeply divided society. This arrogant bureaucrat from Britain wanted to make a society according to his liking, without any respect for the local players [the host interrupts saying that Dodik has announced a lawsuit against Ashdown]. If you exclude [Christian] Schwartz-Schilling [German diplomat], [Miroslav] Lajcak [Slovak diplomat], and I believe [Valentin] Inzko, no previous High Representative had respected the fact that there were local political forces here. Schwartz-Schilling was the first to suggest agreements with the local people. No, we now have in the OHR the story of the stick back again, which is encouraged by the Sarajevo couch conversations, where various types of situations are being created at various receptions, I am sure there is one going on right now, where the Serb Republic is constantly slagged off.

[Passage omitted, asked by the host about the OHR request for revocation of the Serb Assembly conclusions on transfer of powers which should have been done by 11 June, but was not, Dodik says the government is working as usual and dealing with other regular topics.]

[Host:] What do you expect the OHR to do, to resort to the Bonn Powers, dismissals?

[Dodik:] What dismissals? That's a finished story. Who will they dismiss? They will not dismiss anyone. Their replacement of this guy, Radja [Radislav Jovicic, officer], from SIPA [State Investigation and Prosecution Agency], we will see about that. This is not over yet. This is abuse and this is unacceptable. The Serb Republic government does not accept it and we are considering how to overturn this decision. This is out of question. All because of one Raffi Gregorian [US diplomat and Deputy High Representative], who has a paranoid fear of I don't know what, who accepts various stories from the street, thus leading a serious institution into making serious mistakes. This is their problem; I do not at all care about Raffi Gregorian. He is a mere paranoiac who lost orientation in time and space. He wants to exert force here and I want to believe that the High Representative was literally deceived when he did this [replaced the SIPA officer] and that the decision will have to be revoked. This Serb Republic has its ways, and we will demonstrate them. We are not making noise without any substance, we will show that this should not have been done. This is the biggest damage for Bosnia-Hercegovina. The biggest damage for Bosnia-Hercegovina and its European integration is done by the fact that the OHR is still here, on several grounds. The European Union does not want to grant candidate status as long as the OHR is here. Only because of this they are creating evident obstacles there, so that a group of people could earn a living and demonstrate their sick ambitions, as Raffi Gregorian has been doing. [Passage omitted, Dodik says Gregorian banned work of a security agency in Brcko that was not registered at all]. There is not a single piece of evidence for what he has been saying. That was only his sick ambition and sick brain that constructed all that out of desperation and the wish to be important. He is a failed diplomat, who is still exerting force here, who will leave and carry with him an avalanche of accusations, not only on my part but all those people who do not dare speak now. I can speak. He is a simple pettifogger, who is making the High Representative make such decisions. [Passage omitted, Dodik says Gregorian is making up stories with a number of people from the Serb Republic, but the entity is stable, politically and economically.] He is the one recreating some situations from the past. He thinks we are a banana republic. We are a serious republic, they have to understand that.They cannot do anything here without the Serb Republic. They can work with us as partners, no-one will ignore us or underestimate us. I was not the one who had recognized Bosnia on the international political scene and surely we cannot challenge that - Bosnia-Hercegovina is internationally recognized. However, Bosnia-Hercegovina is not recognized internally. In Bosnia-Hercegovina, there are Bosniak [Bosnian Muslim] political representatives who are not happy with Bosnia-Hercegovina as it is, and do not accept it as such. There are Croats, who are also unhappy because they are subject to rule by a numerical majority in the Federation. There are Serb representatives who are unhappy with constant attacks against the Serb Republic. Who then accepts Bosnia-Hercegovina as it is? Only several people in the OHR. Instead of leaving the local players to reach consensus on important issues, they are constantly trying to create certain scenarios. The OHR, which should have been a factor of stability, has definitely become a factor of instability, long-term instability of Bosnia-Hercegovina. [Passage omitted, Dodik says he knows some people from the State Department do not stand behind Gregorian and that he has already had certain problems; he denies the possibility of any political replacement and announces judicial and political battle for overturning the decision on the dismissal of the Serb SIPA officer; he says he is not scared of people "exerting control" and continues to criticize Gregorian, who is married to a Sarajevo woman and whose best man is a Muslim; Dodik also says no-one can forbid him to implement the conclusions of the Serb Assembly, he criticizes the OHR for imposing laws and establishing state-level institutions.]

[After some time the discussion turns to the Prud process, talks with the Bosnian Muslim and Croat leaders.]

The time has past of the international community imposing things here, and standing behind them SDA [the leading Muslim party]. They can try to impose, I am prepared, but this means we will take our measures too. We are not silly people. I will try to tell Covic [Croat leader] and Tihic [Muslim leader], let us leave the problematic things, maybe the future generations will solve them, but let us see what is our common ground and what will lead us towards Europe more quickly - that would primarily be abolition of the OHR. [Passage omitted, Dodik says OHR is an obstacle for two things, but is interrupted by the host's question whether the two other leaders will agree with the proposal] My proposal on Sunday will be to give a joint statement on the need for the OHR to be leave Bosnia-Hercegovina. If they decline this, they will be against the European way. What can they then tell me about not wanting the European integration? [Passage omitted, Dodik says the EU's Solana said Bosnia could not get the candidate status with the OHR.]

[Dodik:] The institutional strength of the Serb Republic is bigger than ever, its political power

is stronger than ever. Some may not like it, but nothing can happen without the Serb Republic's will in Bosnia-Hercegovina. That was not easy to achieve. Only three years ago, we were subject to various ideas coming and going. I have to admit I had previously thought we should normalize, perhaps I did not understand some things. In the meantime I have grown and matured and I realized there was a deceit leading to making the Serb Republic void of powers, and that foreigners would come and say, here is nothing, but guard it well so no-one can take it away from you. What can you keep, when you have nothing? That had to stop, and we started stopping it as early as 2006. At that time, we were not seen as serious in doing that, now they see very well that we are serious and they are trying to prevent us in various ways, through SIPA [referring to OHR replacements in the State Investigation and Protection Agency], [OHR request for revocation of Serb entity parliament's] conclusions [on the transfer of entity powers to the state-level], I do not know what else, media uproar with some stories and 10 year old footage of Ratko Mladic, only to preserve the story about attacks against Serbs. What they did with Radja [Radislav Jovicic, replaced Serb officer] in SIPA, that is expulsion of Serbs. Those Serbs who believe that what was done to Radja Jovicic is not an attack against Serbs are naive. If we let this go, it will be a matter of time before others are expelled too.

[Passage omitted, Dodik says despite the international community's declarative support for the High Representative's request for the revocation of Serb entity parliament's conclusions on the transfer of powers, not all foreign ambassadors agree with him, as he was told in private conversations with them.]

The Serb Republic has introduced its subjectivity into the Dayton accord. It is a factor of the Dayton accord, and a signatory party of the accord. The Serb Republic has accepted Bosnia-Hercegovina, as written down in Dayton, no interpretation is thus required. The High Representative was established by the Annex 10 of the Dayton Accord. [Passage omitted, Dodik explains that the signatories of the agreement, the Federation of Bosnia-Hercegovina, the Serb Republic, Serbia and Croatia, gave the High Representative the right to interpret this annex only, concerning powers of the joint institutions at the state level in Bosnia-Hercegovina.] These powers had only been three at the time. In the meantime, through various interpretations, they devastated the Serb Republic and changed our position towards Bosnia-Hercegovina. They wanted also to forbid any deliberation on this by force. [Passage omitted, Dodik says deliberation and speech on the status of Bosnia-Hercegovina was banned more times than during the "verbal offence" period under the communist rule.] This period of torture had to see its end too. The international community had had a period of successes, when the peace was stabilized here. The military mission was fully successful, the civilian mission was successful until a certain point, until they started dealing with issues of the transfer of powers and reducing importance of the Serb Republic. This is when the black role of the international community started and this now reached a debacle.

They are now thinking how to get out of here. And they will get out by the end of the year, I think nothing can keep them here if they have any brains. They will leave before they see total collapse. It is a matter of time when we will say 'you can stay as long as you like, a hundred years, if you wish, you can write whatever you wish, we are not interested'. We are still trying to be civilized and say: people, let us finish this work. What is good is that a new energy that can consider other alternatives has been released. No-one was previously allowed to discuss Bosnia-Hercegovina. Why? Why was that a given? How come you cannot express a different opinion in relation to someone who is apparently powerful? There are people in the Serb Republic who do not feel the same way I do, but their problem is that I have the majority and I can work as I wish and build the Serb Republic. When they have the majority, they can abolish it. You have the mayor of Foca, who says the Serb Republic should be abolished and he believes he will become an important political factor on American wings. Maybe that is legitimate, but it is foolish. The people are not that mad, an individual can go mad, but not the whole people. This is a good time as it has opened many possibilities. We say : you have taken away many powers from us without any justification; give us back a share of powers, and let us rearrange things. We are not against Bosnia-Hercegovina, but you cannot take away our powers on account of an imaginary story about a normal Bosnia-Hercegovina. This cannot be done and has not been done over the past three years. Of the 14 requests for the transfer of powers which I found my desk when I came to the government again in 2006, not a single power was transferred. [Passage omitted, Dodik says the transfer of powers in the banking sector, pension, education sectors, among others, have been requested; Dodik goes on to recap his conversation with US Vice President Biden, stressing Biden supports the Serb Republic.]

Many foreigners will tell you they have nothing against the Serb Republic, and their individual views are fair and correct, but the issue is internal recognition. If we accept Bosnia-Hercegovina as a complex federal and confederal union, then we expect from Bosniak [Bosnian Muslim] political representatives to accept the Serb Republic as a fact and say they do not mind the Serb Republic. But the problem is they do mind and will never give up the instinct to remove the Serb Republic. [Passage omitted, Dodik says Bosniaks are good people, but their political representatives are a different matter]. The current Bosniak politics from Sarajevo absolutely reminds one of [Slobodan] Milosevic in former Yugoslavia and his attempts to expel others from Yugoslavia, thus leading to the break-up of the country. The same is done now by political Bosniaks today. Reis ul-Ulema Ceric [the head of Islamic Community] will say he does not want to comment on Milorad Dodik, as if I care, but I will comment on him. He says Bosnia is the country of Bosniaks and those who do not like it may leave. I do not think Bosnia is the country of Bosniaks. You can form a Bosnia somewhere without us and call it the country of Bosniaks, and I will have nothing against that. But you will not treat the Serb Republic as the whole of Bosnia, as the country of one single people, because we do not treat the Serb Republic as the country of Serb people only.

[Passage omitted] Bosniak people certainly have more capacity for a far better representation. Look at the Federation and what such political options have gotten them into - an overall economic and social hopelessness. [Passage omitted, Dodik says the Federation got several times more donor funds than the Serb Republic.] These political options have to come to their senses and seek agreement with political representatives of the Serbs, Croats and other people living here. They should say they accept the Serb Republic as a fact, and see why are Croats unhappy and how can this be resolved with them. Our goal is to have Bosnia-Hercegovina as a complex country with internationally recognized legal status [Dodik apparently saying something that may be the words of Bosniak leaders]. I do not dispute that, or anyone else in the Serb Republic, but if things go on this way, it is uncertain what our position next year will be.

[Passage omitted, Dodik elaborates how the state security investigations into the construction of the Serb Republic government building, public broadcaster's building and motorway construction (a demonstration of the building of the subjectivity of the Serb Republic, according to him) are attacks against the Serb Republic; he says he does not trust Bosnian Muslim investigators, judges and prosecutors; he claims all projects are done in accordance with the law.] These stories have been put forth first by the famous 60 Minutes programme [of the Federation TV], who believe they will build a state that way. I pray to God every day that this programme is not banned, because this is the best way to achieve our goals and will eventually lead to the break-up of this country, which is not functioning anyway. This is no country at all and it serves no purpose. [Passage omitted]

But, I do not care what they think. The problem is when they start abusing the institutions, which they snatched away from us anyway. This demonstrates how Serbs would be treated in the years to come if they give in. Someone from Sarajevo, some Bosniak prosecutor who targets someone in Banja Luka, would be able to write a warrant and send SIPA to arrest him here. Who will protect that person from abuse? [Passage omitted, Dodik mentions the case of Mirko Sarovic, Serb official who was convicted by Bosnian state-level judiciary.] I will go until the very end to find the people who staged all this, being a president or not. I will never give up trying to disclose these people and their role in the whole matter. The Serb Republic is the target of attacks again. If Milorad Dodik were not the prime minister, no-one would even touch me. They can't stand the developments in the Serb Republic and the fact that it is better off. [Passage omitted, Dodik says the IMF said the Serb Republic is better off than the Federation and asked for some solidarity measures for purposes of IMF loan] The Federation costs us, the life in Bosnia-Hercegovina costs us, we are losing economically because of life in Bosnia-Hercegovina. [Passage omitted, Dodik says the Serb Republic has lost at least 500 million euros by the interest rate of one per cent because the Federation did not meet the requirements for the stand-by arrangements.]

[Host:] Can we talk about new negotiations at the level of Bosnia-Hercegovina under these circumstances? I am referring to the Prud Troika. What do you expect from the next meeting?

[Dodik:] The decision of the High Representative on replacement of SIPA [State Investigation and Protection Agency] people has brought everything into question.

[Host:] Will you go to the next meeting on 14 June?

[Dodik:] I will go, no worries about that, and we will talk, but this has only increased the distrust.

[Host:] Will there be any solution for the state property?

[Dodik:] We will try. Nothing can be done at the expense of the Serb Republic.

[Host:] Who did not like the Prud Agreement from the beginning? The three of you had met and finally reached an agreement at the level of Bosnia-Hercegovina. The Serb Republic was stable and unchallenged, but someone then did not like it.

[Dodik:] You remember that when [Sulejman] Tihic [leader of the Muslim SDA - Party of Democratic Action] returned from Banja Luka, there was a special programme on the Federation TV where he was attacked by all weapons. But, I do not care about that. I know what we want - the Serb Republic with political and territorial borders and the powers it has, and a share of these powers will be returned sooner or later, maybe not during my mandate, but I am sure some will be returned, if we start working on this now. The Court and Prosecutor's Office of Bosnia-Hercegovina are unsustainable. They do not exist in the constitution or in the Dayton Accord, and have not been a result of an agreement of the sides in Bosnia-Hercegovina. No new constitution will be made until this is annulled.

[Host:] To go back to Prud. After the re-election party leader, Sulejman Tihic has once again come out with some radical positions. Is there room for an agreement?

[Dodik:] What room? The SDA was formed by Young Muslims. That was a wing of the terrorist group called the Muslim Brotherhood from the Arab world, which had operated here since 1946 when Alija Izetbegovic [late founder of the SDA] first ended up in prison. The second time was in 1983, because he did not give up on his ideas. He had formed his political party, which was supposed to promote and implement the policy of Young Muslims, and you know this is the policy of creating a society that will follow the principles of Koran and the Shari'ah law, meaning a society that will incorporate the Koran prescribed norms into secular legal norms. That was

Alija Izetbegovic, who managed to present himself to the international community as a multiethnic person. If you are multiethnic, you cannot be a Young Muslim. Alija Izetbegovic was not a Bosniak. He had written in his Islamic Declaration that his homeland is Islam. He was a pan-Islamist, a man who had advocated global influence of Islam in the world. Such an SDA remained after Alija Izetbegovic and they have not changed their basic ideology and actions.

[Host:] But you need to sit down with that party leader and talk.

[Dodik:] I cannot choose. I want to say this so that you know I am aware of this, that I know what he represents when I sit down with him. He represents the Young Muslims policies of Alija Izetbegovic in this region and he has been glorifying Alija Izetbegovic all along, until the present day. [Passage omitted, Dodik speaks about the correspondence of positions of Reis Ceric and late Alija Izetbegovic.] We know this, but political reality tells us that this political party won the most votes among Bosniaks and they have a certain role in the joint institutions. Whether we liked each other or not, we have to sit down and try to do some things. But what I am trying to say is that the time has passed when they had the international community behind them, imposing things. This cannot go on.

Transcript issued by BBC Monitoring European, 14 June 2009.

Source: Excerpt from Current Talk programme broadcast (in Serbian) by Bosnian Serb public Television (Banja Luka), 12 June 2009

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